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October 3, 2010 at 3:37 am #22218Anonymous
Hello! I stumbled across this while Googling…looking to buy a propane tank because I have been told the gas companies in our area will only “rent” them to you for approx. 50 cents a gallon above the cost of propane. What a scam! (We sold our farm and bought smaller acreage with a newer home. Drawback: we lost our free gas :-( and now will have to deal with propane. However, it is coupled with a Trane high-efficiency heat pump). Those who are blindly recommending propane here are not giving you anywhere near the whole story: What KIND of electric heat? Baseboard? Resistance? Of course those are expensive! But a 12-14 SEER or higher heat pump will destroy every single propane cost model. Not even close. And Geothermal goes well beyond that. A good compromise, if you are in a climate that regularly goes below freezing in winter, would be a “Dual fuel” system: Propane furnace coupled with a good high-efficiency heat pump (which also gives you central air). The heat pump will save you HUGE dollars in the “fringe” heating months of September, October possibly November, and then March/April. On the coldest days the propane may in fact be more efficient at times (see earlier reference to low temps). I state without hesitation that propane by itself is wildly expensive when compared to other alternatives. To be fair, so are electric baseboard and straight resistance heating. But those really are not good alternatives, and are RARELY installed as stand-alone systems today. It simply is not done. As for the guy who was a utility engineer, I would ask: What kind of engineer? I spent 15 years in the electric utility industry and spent a great deal of time on this question. There is simply NO WAY that propane is the most efficient or least expensive home heating method/fuel. Pure, complete nonsense. Mark my words: Propane is used as a primary heating fuel ONLY in areas where natural gas is not available. I used to hear anecdotal stories from field member services reps; they reported that propane salespeople would stop at new construction homesites and ask what type of heating was being installed. When the answer was “geothermal” they would not even get out of their vehicle! Please give strong consideration to a dual fuel system. If you must use propane, this will save you a huge amount of money over the life of the system. Finally, make sure you get a qualified, licensed HVAC person to PROPERLY SIZE whatever system you choose. Many a good home has been badly (and expensively) heated by a botched size and install.
October 6, 2010 at 8:39 pm #22219AnonymousThank you”just passing by”. We are renovating (10 years now) a 101 year old victorian farm house. We had central air and “heat” installed about 8 years ago, and have been freezing ever since. It does get rather chilly here in east tennessee, and we are considering having a dual fuel system put in. We have 2 units, one upstairs and one downstairs. We are only replacing the downstairs unit. Many people in this area say we don’t need propane, however an old home like this just does not warm up well with just a heat pump. Thank you for explaining this so well.
October 17, 2010 at 3:26 pm #22220AnonymousHello….I was in upper management in the propane industry for over 30 years, for both large domestic propane companies and for natural gas utilities, and have just a few comments. Propane heat, like natural gas heat, is far warmer coming out of the duct than electric can ever be. A heat pump in any climates north of, say, North Carolina, will only provide a home heat that is always chilly, and also quite expensive – on the range of $400-600 per month in a peak winter month. Propane will provide much more pleasant heat, but it is not cheap. With propane approaching $2.50-2.75 per gallon, and the average house in the north using 200-300 gallons in a peak month, the charges can actually exceed electric. Natural gas is by far the most comfortable and the least expensive, but is not available in all areas unless there is an existing distribution system in the area fed by a not-too-distant high pressure transmission line. The best suggestion, whether propane or natural gas, is to us a hybrid system……use the gas in the months when the temperature drops below 42-45 degrees, and use the heat pump for all other days, including for the cooling, for which it is really designed and unmatched. Finally, if one has the funds, getting the most up-to-date and efficient gas furnace and heat pump will be expensive, but will certainly pay for itself in 6-10 year of savings in fuel costs…..of both fuels. And, with the current federal tax credits and the various manufacturers rebates, this could be the best time to make the move.
October 24, 2010 at 3:42 pm #22221AnonymousI agree that Propane is a better fuel, but the fact is that the rates charged by electric utilities is regulated whereas propane suppliers are not. They are able to charge you any rate because they know you cant hop suppliers easily. I stick to electric , much less effort than dealing with greedy propane suppliers
November 8, 2010 at 3:28 pm #22222AnonymousKinda on the fence about both.. Propane in north Carolina is so expensive but we have never had electric.. I wanted to find out the cost to get an electric pump installed and i happen to see this site.. we are on a budget plan and our regular payment is 150 for 11 months with top offs every month… i was new to propane so i think they took advantage of that and now i am stuck and dont know what to do.. any suggestions?
December 13, 2010 at 3:44 pm #22223AnonymousWe live in the Northwest. When we first built our house 15 years ago we had propane forced air system put in. That year we had a really bad storm and we went through a 250 gallon tank in 3 weeks. This cost us around 400.00 or so now it is up to 600.00 to fill the tank. I have been avoiding using the propane heater. We also had put in a heat pump and pellet stove. I am considering putting in an electric furnace, and have been slowly doing away with propane because of the cost.
December 15, 2010 at 11:25 pm #22224AnonymousYou are right that propane heat is expensive. I spent over $2000. 00 this past winter (in 6 months) to heat a 1600 sq. foot house in North Carolina. We had an electric heat pump in our previous home and our bills averaged about $160/month.
January 2, 2011 at 3:11 am #22225Anonymousfor those that need proof of frugal life’s accurate claim (or if you’d like to compare costs of other heating sources) see the US Dept of Energy’s comparison calculator at http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/experts/heatcalc.xls
January 6, 2011 at 11:28 pm #22226AnonymousI live in a 1400 sq ft home in Northwest Pa with a propane furnace, it cost $800-$850 to fill my tank, wich only lasts about 6 weeks in the winter, I am strongly considering switching to an electric furnace.
January 10, 2011 at 8:46 pm #22227AnonymousOK this is what you need to do, step one is to figurer out what your degree days are for you area. This is a fact put out by the weather service so you can estimate how many degree days you have to heat for. second is to determine how much energy/ insulation your home has as this will change all the numbers quoted by those experts. i can make the above very greatly. (example my house and my neighborers hose were identical constructed and heated with heat pumps. I super insulated my house and his last month heating bill was 320 dollar . My heating bill was 88 dollars. ) this insulation values critical in energy usage. next BTU is BTU . the only difference is the cost per BTU. Find the one that is the cheapest or bets fits your lifestyle. you can find all this information on a web site called ‘build it solar dot com.” he sells nothing and has every calculator you may need to make a decision..
January 10, 2011 at 9:16 pm #22228AnonymousWell gosh them dang energy bills here sure don’t look frugal to me, I think I’ll stick to my $140 a month in the worst of weather and start appreciating what I got seeing how I guess I just didn’t know how good I had it, thanks for reminding me!
January 23, 2011 at 10:07 pm #22229AnonymousWhen I bought my house in New Jersey in 1996, the price of heating oil was less than $1 per gallon. Now it is $3.30 per gallon. To save money, this is what I do: For downstairs, which is about 1600 sq. ft., I use oil furnace to heat. For upstairs, which has three bedrooms and a bathroom and is a little less than 1600 sq. ft., I use portable electric heaters in each room. Yes, portable heaters. I have hooked up each heater to Lux Win100 programmable thermostat which costs about $35 on Amazon. To be safe, each heater has its own dedicated 20 Amp circuit instead the 15 Amp that most manufacturers recommend. Also, never use an extension cord. Each heater is programmed to go on at about 10:00 p.m. and off at 8:00 a.m. The oil furnace is also programmed to go on at 8:00 a.m. and off at 10:00 p.m. Recently, we’ve had a severe cold spell (temps at night in the single digits to negative single digits) and I used Kill-a-Watt meter, which I bought from Home Depot for $28, to measure the use of electricity in my 400 Sq. ft. master bedroom. The total amount used for about ten hours was approximately 4Kwh. Electricity at about 17 cents per Kwh at this time of the year, it cost me about 70 cents to keep the bedroom at constant 72 degrees the entire night. I use DeLonghi Mica Panel heater in the master bedroom which I bought for about $80 a couple of years ago. If I were to run the oil furnace, I am absolutely positive that it would have cost me a lot more than 70 cents. If you want to buy portable heaters, check in Consumer Reports to see which are economical and safe heaters. So, in the end, I would say that if electricity is used as zonal heat with programmable thermostats, it will definitely save you money.
January 27, 2011 at 11:32 pm #22230AnonymousI have a brand new townhome, approximately 1700 sq ft. I live in the DC Metro area, and have propane bills that range from 400-600 a MONTH during the winter. This is keeping the thermostat at 67 in the day and 62 at night. Always FREEZING in my home. Had I not got on the “budget plan” this year and locked in my propane price at 2.59/gallon, my bill for January this year would have been over $700!!! For a townhome! Do NOT use propane to heat your home if you can help it. I am looking at selling my home because of this.
February 13, 2011 at 5:23 pm #22231AnonymousTo just passing by- Agree- Geothermal is highly efficient, and cost effective (cheap) to operate. But, what is the cost to have the wells, either vertical or trenches for horizontal storage, drilled or excavated. In our area, it would be $50,000 plus to have a geothermal system engineered and installed, according to our local heating contractors and PA public utility people. I don’t want to be perceived as disrespectful, but the payback on that is too long for me.
February 14, 2011 at 5:29 pm #22232AnonymousWe bought a propane-heated home in October, and it is wiping out our savings account. First bill in late November was $400. 2nd bill was first week of January for $1,086. JUST received another bill this weekend (for one month of propane usage) and it was $876!!!! I’m pretty sure I had a mini-stroke upon opening that bill. I don’t know how propane companies are staying in business at these prices, but we are switching to an electric unit before next winter even if I have to take out a loan to do it. It’s RIDICULOUSLY EXPENSIVE!! (and by the way, we are only heating the lower level of our home and it is only about 1500 sq ft – we are keeping the upper level closed off – also keeping the thermostat set no higher than 66 degrees so we aren’t even feeling warm) :(
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